Welcome to DIVERSITY UNIVERSITY Running version 1.7.7 of the LambdaMOO server Address: erau.db.erau.edu (155.31.1.1) 8888 Diversity University is an experiment in interactive learning through internet. We are attempting to create a practical learning environment containing as many areas of study as we can accurately provide. If you would like to help us create this monolith of learning, we could use the help. As one of many participants in this experiment, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU) has agreed to temporarily allow this program on their system. ERAU is in no way responsible for the content of the material that may be placed in this environment. Your feedback on this experiment would be appreciated. You may e-mail your comments to: comments@db.erau.edu Login Commands: connect guest | to have a look around @who | to see who is online @quit | to exit Diversity University >connect Kaspar iapiaget *** Connected *** d_331 Kasper's office. It looks brand new. There is a desk with a note on it, a chair and a couch. Last connected Sun May 22 08:03:38 1994 EDT from fpssun21.unige.ch *** Warning: There have been 2 failed attempts to connect since your previous successful connection *** There are new news items for you to read. Please type "news" to get a summary. You have new mail (1 message). Type 'help mail' for info on reading it. There is new activity on the following lists: *General (#1017) 30 new messages *Ideas (#525) 7 new messages *Features (#3003) 15 new messages *Events (#1422) 2 new messages >join marcus Marcus' Office A lab room in a theoretical physics department in Hamburg, Germany. You see enrollment lists for several planned GNA Internet courses on a desk at the window. On a terminal, GNA logos are popping up and down, and frequent beeps tell you that Marcus' mailbox is filling up slowly but steadily. Outside, thick clouds are passing and it looks like rain every minute. From a window, you view the river Elbe. Your eye can rest on all the green around. Physics buildings are rising here and there, and deep in the ground, a giant accelerator is humming. In one corner, you see a small table with an ashtray on it, a recliner and a couch. Exits include: [gna] to GNA Central, [out] to Science Faculty Hall (303-304) Marcus (gobsloptious) is sitting in the recliner, his legs on the table, smoking a cigarette. You see Schedule here. You join Marcus in Marcus' Office. >look Marcus' Office A lab room in a theoretical physics department in Hamburg, Germany. You see enrollment lists for several planned GNA Internet courses on a desk at the window. On a terminal, GNA logos are popping up and down, and frequent beeps tell you that Marcus' mailbox is filling up slowly but steadily. Outside, thick clouds are passing and it looks like rain every minute. From a window, you view the river Elbe. Your eye can rest on all the green around. Physics buildings are rising here and there, and deep in the ground, a giant accelerator is humming. In one corner, you see a small table with an ashtray on it, a recliner and a couch. Exits include: [gna] to GNA Central, [out] to Science Faculty Hall (303-304) Marcus (gobsloptious) is sitting in the recliner, his legs on the table, smoking a cigarette. You see Schedule here. Marcus waves. >:waves too Kaspar waves too >"see anybody else ? You ask, "see anybody else ?" Marcus says, "nope." Marcus asks, "read my 'comments'?" >"no ... just arrived in my office ... You say, "no ... just arrived in my office ..." >".... hang on You say, ".... hang on" Marcus says, ""in fact, i must apologize: i misread Ken's comments - only later i understood he was referring the few contribs." Marcus says, "but i still think it may be too long. one sentence should be enuff." Marcus is waiting. >"didn't mail anything to him .... yeah for a discussion list could be shorter You say, "didn't mail anything to him .... yeah for a discussion list could be shorter" Marcus is afraid HIS blurp is too long either... Marcus says, "also, you can for sure now eliminate your old sub-session comments - i have incorporated many of them. just leave a link, maybe." Marcus asks, "ok?" Marcus says, "i am only worried that i cannot read 3 contribs. well, maybe i can before thursday." Marcus says, "i havent read much anyway yet-this is all fog (will do before I come) :)" >"I'll copy everything to my server sometimes ! You exclaim, "I'll copy everything to my server sometimes !" > Marcus says, "ok" >"will eliminate all my orginal stuff yes You say, "will eliminate all my orginal stuff yes" Marcus says, "I also located some relevant stuff in the Conference papers which is NOT doubled. only abstracts, nothing really new." Marcus says, "your setup now is *neat*, really." Marcus says, "besides that I dont like the 'buttons' NEXT UP PREV... etc :)" >"stole everything from the latex translator :) ... a ws particpant btw You say, "stole everything from the latex translator :) ... a ws particpant btw" Marcus nods. we dont comfort any single contributor - except you, dan, ken and myself :) :) >"those conference organizers need some ideas from us ... they really could have put up the papers You say, "those conference organizers need some ideas from us ... they really could have put up the papers" Marcus aches - his wrists hurt. >"I messed something in the participants page .. jumps won't work You say, "I messed something in the participants page .. jumps won't work" Marcus didnt notice Marcus woud have sent one mail for each wrong link otherwise :) Marcus laffs >"sure no not the links to contribs... just the internatl jumps ! You exclaim, "sure no not the links to contribs... just the internatl jumps !" >"btw daniel 2 will arrive ... first time in his life telnet connection You say, "btw daniel 2 will arrive ... first time in his life telnet connection" > Marcus grins - let them come >:will teach them fear Kaspar will teach them fear >"maybe I can't do 1. ANDERSSON ... have to put both name and href into the tag ? You ask, "maybe I can't do 1. ANDERSSON ... have to put both name and href into the tag ?" Marcus says, "sure, that works." >" no won't work either :( You say, " no won't work either :(" >:hates computers now Kaspar hates computers now Marcus asks, "what are you trying to do?" >"jumping from a entry in the participants list down to his full entry You say, "jumping from a entry in the participants list down to his full entry" Marcus says, "since the numbers are fixed..." >"what numbers are fixed ??? You ask, "what numbers are fixed ???" Marcus says, "should be no problem....look at comments.html" Marcus says, "wait, lemme look at this page..." >"yeah your page does not help the blind You say, "yeah your page does not help the blind" Marcus asks, "huh? why not?" >"because you don't have this kind of jumps ... I just need debugging my page :( :( You say, "because you don't have this kind of jumps ... I just need debugging my page :( :(" Lapis_Guest joins you. Lapis_Guest arrives from nowhere. Marcus asks, "I will put them - you mean jumps up to the TOC?" >"just look at the page please and try to understand... You say, "just look at the page please and try to understand... " Lapis_Guest says, "Hella kaspar" >"Daniel peraya ?? You ask, "Daniel peraya ??" >"sure its me .... Lapis_Guest says, "yes, I'm" You say, "sure its me ...." >"better than minitel huh ? You ask, "better than minitel huh ?" Lapis_Guest says, "How are you" Marcus waves. >"In the middle of reorganizing the whole workshop ! You exclaim, "In the middle of reorganizing the whole workshop !" > Marcus lights a virtual cigarette... ...Thick clouds of smoke are slowly drifting through the room. Marcus [to Kaspar]: look now - you mean that? >:Kaspar is not impressed by all this virtual stuff Kaspar Kaspar is not impressed by all this virtual stuff >"lets discuss content first, ok ? You ask, "lets discuss content first, ok ?" > Lapis_Guest says, "Daniel, say I feel quite excited to be in this offissay ok " Marcus [to Kaspar]: ok Marcus [to Kaspar]: someon asks how many participants we have? >"after looking at Marcus stuff I think that maybe Daniel P should chair a session on Distance Education - I mean the link between education and WWW - its missing now You say, "after looking at Marcus stuff I think that maybe Daniel P should chair a session on Distance Education - I mean the link between education and WWW - its missing now" Marcus asks, "In which sense?" Lapis_Guest says, "it will be possible on " >"like how to teach and to learn things :) ... not just how to deliver stuff over the network You say, "like how to teach and to learn things :) ... not just how to deliver stuff over the network" Marcus says, "well." >"actually marcus has to say something about that ! You exclaim, "actually marcus has to say something about that !" Lapis_Guest says, "I was the sense and the meaning of my paper" Marcus says, "I do, indeed. I also believe that you have to have DONE it to be able to speak about it. The list of questions is extendable and not complete at all. On the contrary, i tried to put what i did NOT find in the papers - that's why it is a 'devil's list" Marcus is just looking at Daniel peraya's paper >"right, but the things you did not find - sorry - are totally unimportant to educators in some sense You say, "right, but the things you did not find - sorry - are totally unimportant to educators in some sense" Marcus says, "note that the "how to improve real educ" and "target audience" overlap with this." Quartz_Guest arrives from nowhere. >"remember that we had multimedia, satellite tv, video and everything and nothing did work You say, "remember that we had multimedia, satellite tv, video and everything and nothing did work" Quartz_Guest [to all]: This is Ken, Hi! Marcus says, "interesting point of view. I am not sure yet that I understand. The things I listed seemed to resemble your list of DE (in parts)." >"lo ken ! You exclaim, "lo ken !" Marcus waves. >`marucs, oh it is there that's right, but in my opinion it should be central Kaspar [to marucs,]: oh it is there that's right, but in my opinion it should be central Marcus will always concede that he may have missed the goals of a community he does not belong to. Marcus says, "I have no objections to let DanielP chair, of course, not to be misunderstood." Lapis_Guest says, "marcus feel fre to chair. I've explain to daniel S. that my english is" >`of course not :) .... I don't want him to chair the whole session, just a small sub session - or maybe just give him room as outside critique - that would be even better Kaspar [to of]: course not :) .... I don't want him to chair the whole session, just a small sub session - or maybe just give him room as outside critique - that would be even better Marcus [to danielS]: Also, we'll all be in the room to see what the central interest will be :) Marcus says, "I bet you'd be surprised. (And me too, maybe)." >"most of the participants will be techno-freaks i am sure You say, "most of the participants will be techno-freaks i am sure " > Marcus says, "We should maybe speak about the meaning of 'chair' first :)" Marcus nods. Marcus says, "I dont want to impose on a discussion in any way. If nobody feels that social implications or target audience are a problem - fine with me (i'll bring that up though)." >"well, chair is both to organize discussion AND bring in discussion points which will be important for people inside and outside You say, "well, chair is both to organize discussion AND bring in discussion points which will be important for people inside and outside" Marcus says, "If everyone feels the Web is FREE, WONDERFUL and UNBEATABLE, fine with me: I will for sure object." Marcus says, "...for T & L, that is." >"It is absolutely important to be discussed, but I'd just like to see some more structure in advance ... maybe because i am a native german speaker :) You say, "It is absolutely important to be discussed, but I'd just like to see some more structure in advance ... maybe because i am a native german speaker :)" Marcus says, "Also, the point which I'm trying to make with 'Loreley' and 'GNA' is that there is a need for getting organized." Marcus nods. I agree (also native german speaker) Marcus says, "In this sense both 'comments' are not satisfying because they further split up the topics." Quartz_Guest [to to]: anyone Is there a problem with our organization or lack of it for the conference? >`marcus if you agree you maybe could just keep your points and put them under headers, but I get my money for finding out how we can teach something to somebody with new technology Kaspar [to Marcus]: if you agree you maybe could just keep your points and put them under headers, but I get my money for finding out how we can teach something to somebody with new technology >`quartz_guest ... nono just first comments on marcus discussion list - nothing dramatic Kaspar [to Quartz_Guest]: ... nono just first comments on marcus discussion list - nothing dramatic Marcus maybe not 'sharp' enough in his blurb - I am discussing/writing internet curricula since 1/2 year, already. >`marcus right but you got 3 curricula ... whereas in the world there are HUNDREDS of distance teaching curricula and HUNDREDS of educational hypertext Kaspar [to Marcus]: right but you got 3 curricula ... whereas in the world there are HUNDREDS of distance teaching curricula and HUNDREDS of educational hypertext Marcus says, "But this is as pragmatic a viewpoint as mine." Marcus nods Jack_C arrives from nowhere. >"the interessing thing is not the curriculum, but how you deliver it ... you certainly don't talk much about that in this list You say, "the interessing thing is not the curriculum, but how you deliver it ... you certainly don't talk much about that in this list" Jack_C says, "Hi Marcus" Jack_C says, "Hi kaspar, hello everyone" Marcus waves. >:waves too Kaspar waves too >finger Jack_C Info on Jack_C (#5559): a journalist working in Washington DC for many years. Jack_C's current assignment is writing about environmental issues. Jack_C is interested in participating in a writing workshop or seminar at DivU. Jack_C is one of the programmers of DU. Jack_C is in Marcus' Office 19 seconds idle time. Jack_C isn't working at the moment. >`Jack_C oh another moo hacker .... when I grow up I will too Kaspar [to Jack_C]: oh another moo hacker .... when I grow up I will too Marcus says, "I think I do. How to relate to classical 'vocational' techniques. To printed matter. To money. To technique (related to an audience)." Marcus says, "but maybe we're (necessarily) just speaking different tongues." Marcus hopes *this* may be the fruitful base of discussion during this WS. Jack_C plunges down on the couch. Marcus lights a virtual cigarette... ...Thick clouds of smoke are slowly drifting through the room. >`right ... actually I fully agree that this money, copyright stuff is important ... but it is just not the same thing ... I prefer some separation .. because this stuff can become commercial :( .. but for both the methodological issues are the same Kaspar [to right]: ... actually I fully agree that this money, copyright stuff is important ... but it is just not the same thing ... I prefer some separation .. because this stuff can become commercial :( .. but for both the methodological issues are the same Marcus says, "In any discussion with professionals, I do notice that my approach is "naive" - which I share with most of the university educators in Science, unfortunately." Marcus hms and thinks. Jack_C drops Plate of Fiery's Birthday Cake. Marcus says, "Now, we're getting to the point. I think that inthe case of globewide tools, it is important that they are NOT kept separately." >"I would not worry too much ... because each person who reinvents the wheel may come up with a better wheel. Most of people like you don't but the ones who do ... THEY bring in progress in education You say, "I would not worry too much ... because each person who reinvents the wheel may come up with a better wheel. Most of people like you don't but the ones who do ... THEY bring in progress in education" Marcus hms. Not clear how to interpret the 2nd part of that statement. Marcus eyes Daniel P and Ken. >`marcus ... sure you want to keep education free, but you just can't mis the two issues Kaspar [to Marcus]: ... sure you want to keep education free, but you just can't mis the two issues Marcus says, "sorry for indulging in a 'private' talk with Daniel here..." >"sorry was "mixed" You say, "sorry was "mixed"" >`well i am speaking for Daniel P too ! Kaspar [to well]: i am speaking for Daniel P too ! Marcus [to Kaspar]: and also for Ken? Marcus eyes Ken. Jack_C listens intently but he hopes not rudely >absoluty not :) I don't understand that. >"absoluty not :) You say, "absoluty not :)" Marcus [to Jack_C]: oh, not at all - and thanks for the lawyer contact btw. Quartz_Guest [to Marcus]: I am here, but not sure when I should jump in. This is interesting, but... Jack_C says, "glad to be of help." Marcus [to Jack_C]: btw, if you can access the Web, we're talking about a workshop Teaching & Learning with WWW next week. see http://tecfa.unige.ch/edu-ws94/ws.html >"but what ? ... scream if I make too much noise ! You exclaim, "but what ? ... scream if I make too much noise !" Marcus waits for Ken to hit them over the... Marcus grins >:Kaspar looks for a couch to hide under Kaspar Kaspar looks for a couch to hide under Marcus says, "I am curious what you guys actually have to offer (for your money) :)" Jack_C makes a note in his notebook Quartz_Guest [to Kasper]: You are not making too much noise. I just jumped in on the middle and don't know what whent on befoer. Marcus says, "I must confess that MY education is FULL of bad examples. one reason for my being with GNA." >"oh we are just discussin Marcus' page You say, "oh we are just discussin Marcus' page" Marcus [to Quartz_Guest]: i just asked Kaspar to read my 'structuring' - which he identified as not centered enough for the session topic in question. >" ...http://info.desy.de/gna/html/tl/comments.html You say, " ...http://info.desy.de/gna/html/tl/comments.html" Quartz_Guest [to all]: I liked the point about letting the participants identify where they think their topic falls. Lapis_Guest says, "I have to go; I'll be back in few moments" Marcus asks, "Which I concede, but it's the only chance to drop some points. And also, looking through the contribs - are *they* centered around your topic, Kaspar?" Lapis_Guest has disconnected. Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Lapis_Guest off to their dream-research labs. Marcus [to Quartz_Guest]: this is an extension of your own proposal. >"... the thing is we have to come up with results for a scientif workshop in the field You say, "... the thing is we have to come up with results for a scientif workshop in the field" Marcus says, "In fact in a highly interdisciplinary field, Kaspar." Marcus says, "Bringing together people only through a technology. IMO, no technology alone is at the heart of progress. It's a vehicle. And we're discussing how it applies to educational purposes." >`I don't believe that .... conference in ANY of the various antagonist fiels of education, educational technology, cognitive science, etc etc are very tough on methodological issues Kaspar [to I]: don't believe that .... conference in ANY of the various antagonist fiels of education, educational technology, cognitive science, etc etc are very tough on methodological issues Marcus emphasizes ONLY and stresses a pretty untested technology. Marcus [to Kaspar]: can you give an example? or name one? (or should i just red YOUR contribution?) >`the technology is not that much untested, remote hypertext and on-line education have been there Kaspar [to the]: technology is not that much untested, remote hypertext and on-line education have been there Quartz_Guest says, "I think that there are many overlaps in each of the topics. It is hard to bring it into an overall structure." >"I don't want to eliminate overlaps - just make sure that we ALSO talk about education and not only on political and technical issues You say, "I don't want to eliminate overlaps - just make sure that we ALSO talk about education and not only on political and technical issues" >`marcus: what kind of examples ? you mean distance education using computers ? Kaspar [to marcus:]: what kind of examples ? you mean distance education using computers ? Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar]: I agree and understand. My purpose in working with WWW is to use it to make progess in education and in the daily operations of our University. Marcus is just scrolling through Kaspar's own draft... >`skip my draft -- it is AWFUL! Kaspar [to skip]: my draft -- it is AWFUL! Marcus [to Kaspar]: agreed :) Marcus grins Marcus [to Kaspar]: ...while GNA is rather attempting to reinvent education - assuming that there is no wheel yet, actually (in some sense). >"just had no f*cking time ... and btw education is absolutly not my field You say, "just had no f*cking time ... and btw education is absolutly not my field" Jack_C has opened Mosaic and is casting about aimlessly Marcus [to Kaspar]: I think it would have been nice to RECORD THIS discusseion! Marcus [to Jack_C]: dont find it? my comment is in http://info.desy.de/gna/html/tl/comments.html Marcus [to Kaspar]: recording and makign it HTML (for which the C++ course has a script) for the WS. >`marcus GNA is rather an attempt to make learning global and open ... that is an important issue, but the WAY in which this thing is done is for ME also important Kaspar [to Marcus]: GNA is rather an attempt to make learning global and open ... that is an important issue, but the WAY in which this thing is done is for ME also important Marcus [to Kaspar]: For me too, no doubt. And increasingly so, since I joined. One reason to bail out as a director and fully turn to courses. >`marcus - I got an emacs buffer :) Kaspar [to Marcus]: - I got an emacs buffer :) Marcus got a buffer too, and the conversion Perl script - but has no power to EDIT this buffer....will you? Jack_C is slow but is getting there... >`marcus euhh what power ? Kaspar [to Marcus]: euhh what power ? Marcus [to Quartz_Guest]: we could also ask the participants to split in TWO separate groups in two corners of the room: one behind me, the other behind Daniel :) :) Marcus [to Kaspar]: i meant energy. Marcus . o O ( and wrist ) >`you will totally loose because I will bring my collection of Swiss army knives Marcus grins Kaspar [to you]: will totally loose because I will bring my collection of Swiss army knives Quartz_Guest [to Marcus]: And they watch them fight it out? :-) Marcus [to Kaspar]: to give them to whom? they'll all be behind me :) :) Marcus imagines Kaspar being pulled to the floor by his metal collection :) >:Kaspar finally will go an other workshop Kaspar Kaspar finally will go an other workshop Marcus laffs wholeheartedly Marcus [to kasper]: Oh NO! >:and he never learns how to type in MOO commands Kaspar and he never learns how to type in MOO commands Marcus resigns and will join the HTML+ session instead. :) Marcus . o O ( or HTML- ? ) Marcus laffs >"Ken, can you handle the ws alone ? You ask, "Ken, can you handle the ws alone ?" > Marcus [to Ken]: this is unfair, because probably you dont even have a client... Marcus eyes Ken - yeah, maybe that's a solution Marcus really appreciates that the organizers have humour! Quartz_Guest [to all]: NO I CAN NOT and WILL Not, but i will help anyway I can. Marcus [to Kaspar]: which doesnt mean that I'll give way only 1 cm. Jack_C finds the page fascinating but rl intrudes Marcus laffs - ok, let's get back to CONTENTS. Jack_C hopes to catch up with you all later. ____________ | | Marcus holds up a BIG sign: | Bye, Jack! | |____________| Jack_C announces last call for a piece of birthday cake. Jack_C daintily consumes the fattest piece on the plate. Quartz_Guest [to all]: Quick qustins, what do we do about final drafts missing? Marcus nods. Jack_C gets up from the couch. Jack_C picks up Plate of Fiery's Birthday Cake. Marcus [to ken]: there are none on the latest list... Jack_C goes home. Quartz_Guest [to march]: Lyn Keily's draft is still a series of questions and what they want to do. Marcus [to Kaspar]: to resolve the debate: add (with a link to his paper?) that Daniel P will chair the session with me. to calm down everyone? Marcus [to Kaspar]: otherwise: you have an OWN session for your methodology! >`marcus - no not a good solution - he and you should be able to say whatever you like ! Kaspar [to Marcus]: - no not a good solution - he and you should be able to say whatever you like ! Marcus quotes: "Give room to more technical/methodological contributions" Marcus [to Kaspar]: in your header....anyways, i will but moderate - as moderately as possible. Marcus [to Kaspar]: but I think we should, on tuesday, talk about the SEQUENCE of sessions seriously. because it may be your session should be first. Marcus eyes Kaspar for an answer to Ken's question. >`marcus, no that's not the point, if you want to present any day in any education conference anything it is just important to well separate out education from other issues Kaspar [to marcus,]: no that's not the point, if you want to present any day in any education conference anything it is just important to well separate out education from other issues Marcus [to Kaspar]: so what do you propose? that I replace my 'comments'? reorder the items? (e.g. "contributions" first?) Marcus thinks biasing is always a problem, everywhere... >`marcus my suggestin is that you have one entry (1) Free education on the internet a la GNA (2) Education with the Web (all learning, teaching, distant and class-room support, etc and (3) some technical issues Kaspar [to Marcus]: my suggestin is that you have one entry (1) Free education on the internet a la GNA (2) Education with the Web (all learning, teaching, distant and class-room support, etc and (3) some technical issues Marcus asks, "I need to know how long we shall continue tonight ?" Marcus [to Kaspar]: and put the 'devil's' questions accordingly? >`marcus well fix half an hour ? Kaspar [to Marcus]: well fix half an hour ? Marcus [to Kaspar]: 'free education a la GNA' wont be free anymore after a point. >`marcus, right 1,5 is education, 6,4 is education politics, etc. Kaspar [to marcus,]: right 1,5 is education, 6,4 is education politics, etc. Marcus nods Quartz_Guest [to all]: Did anyone look at my comments and see if I am way off track? >`quartz_guest .... yes, just let us finish this first Kaspar [to Quartz_Guest]: .... yes, just let us finish this first Marcus says, "no problem, if that is better with you. As you mentioned, maybe I'll end up talking about technology only :)" Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar]: okay. Marcus nods Ken. Marcus [to Kaspar]: I'll give it a try. ONE try :) because the course is active and I'll have to fix some stuff tomorow and prepare the GNA talk. >`marcus - right I don't want you to take anything out - I just want to make sure that we can report results for some WELL defined domains, e.g. how to improve the educational system (GNA), how to deliver stuff remotely (WWW), how to make sure that people learn (WWW, MOO, exercices, etc etc), etc. Kaspar [to Marcus]: - right I don't want you to take anything out - I just want to make sure that we can report results for some WELL defined domains, e.g. how to improve the educational system (GNA), how to deliver stuff remotely (WWW), how to make sure that people learn (WWW, MOO, exercices, etc etc), etc. Marcus [to Kaspar]: that i can understand. agreed, Kaspar. Marcus lights a virtual cigarette... ...Thick clouds of smoke are slowly drifting through the room. >"ok so we can consider marcus page been discussed then ? You ask, "ok so we can consider marcus page been discussed then ?" Marcus nods. Fine with me. Quartz_Guest says, "Sure, if you agree." >"ok... next year we will have a ws in some to notch first class prestige educational technology conference :) You say, "ok... next year we will have a ws in some to notch first class prestige educational technology conference :)" Marcus [to Kaspar]: the DE one? Quartz_Guest [to all]: This one is to learn how ? Marcus asks, "I propose you add a sentence that each organizer will attempt to write a session summary. ok?" Marcus says, "as a transition to new shores...." >`marcus I did not have time to look into it ....i meant for instance the thing in austria (hypermedia or so ?) Kaspar [to Marcus]: I did not have time to look into it ....i meant for instance the thing in austria (hypermedia or so ?) Marcus nods. >`yes we will do that .... write up a summary Kaspar [to yes]: we will do that .... write up a summary >"we can discuss ken's page now ? You ask, "we can discuss ken's page now ?" Quartz_Guest says, "Agred." Marcus says, "in addition to a session which I may organize locally,at DESY. Working on it." Marcus thinks Ken's page could also need more substructure. Marcus [to ken]: and contribs could be subsummed more concisely...? Marcus says, "Is daniel's original 'classification' still valid? I may decide *not* to comment on each contrib at all, actually. just put links (as Daniel originally did)." Marcus hopes this would be ok with Kaspar. >"I agree, just keeping in mind that we want to come up with results before others will do it ... goal oriented planning a bit Quartz_Guest [to all,]: I was thinkabout adding Daniel's originagl struction into it after we talked. You say, "I agree, just keeping in mind that we want to come up with results before others will do it ... goal oriented planning a bit" >"My orginal classification is contribs is problematic You say, "My orginal classification is contribs is problematic " Marcus thinks Kaspar is kinda competitive :) Marcus agrees (problematic) Quartz_Guest says, "I will add more substructure and make it parallel the original outline." >"I think most contributions bring in very different kinds of topics, thats why I prefer an alphabetical list You say, "I think most contributions bring in very different kinds of topics, thats why I prefer an alphabetical list" Garnet_Guest joins you. Garnet_Guest arrives from nowhere. Marcus nods again. good decision. Marcus waves but hushes the guest. >`Quartz_Guest ... I will kill all the orginal stuff then ... moderators should moderate their stuff with their list Kaspar [to Quartz_Guest]: ... I will kill all the orginal stuff then ... moderators should moderate their stuff with their list Marcus nods again. Quartz_Guest says, "Only after we agree on a new structure? I want to add your old stuff in because it is important." Marcus agrees with Quartz. but kaspar's structre makes this sessino somewhat 'small' >`ken ok, maybe what you can do also is keep both in your page ... mine rather as kind of goals and yours as questions ? Marcus says, "meaning that i think there are more contribs lurking into it." Kaspar [to ken]: ok, maybe what you can do also is keep both in your page ... mine rather as kind of goals and yours as questions ? Marcus [to Kaspar]: the same may apply to mine. >`ken I also added name tags to the contribution page ... so you can link Kaspar [to ken]: I also added name tags to the contribution page ... so you can link Marcus has saved the HTML page. >`marcus yes you can do that, but maybe make it a bit shorter and throw out/add stuff - then you could absolutly keep a flat list of questions Kaspar [to Marcus]: yes you can do that, but maybe make it a bit shorter and throw out/add stuff - then you could absolutly keep a flat list of questions Marcus nods >"... in any case i will add a link at the bottom of the page or so to my old list is you wish = You say, "... in any case i will add a link at the bottom of the page or so to my old list is you wish =" >".. if you wish ?, sorry You say, ".. if you wish ?, sorry" Marcus restructures like *crazy* - now converted to a true methodist...methodologist :) Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar,]: Plwase do >"ok then we all agree :( :( :( You say, "ok then we all agree :( :( :(" Quartz_Guest [to kapar]: Or I can add them into mine. Marcus [to ken]: are you going to change your present page? >`ken would be better maybe, but please edit it Kaspar [to ken]: would be better maybe, but please edit it Quartz_Guest [to all]: It is hard to focus with only three topics contributors and I not a final draft. Quartz_Guest [to all]: Last part should read 1 not a final draft. Marcus nods >`ken don't worry ... btw there is more than just that ... some do have things of interest ... Kaspar [to ken]: don't worry ... btw there is more than just that ... some do have things of interest ... Marcus thinks Ken may well draw the majority of listeners. Marcus [to ken]: in a tech-oriented auditory - which the conf will have. Quartz_Guest says, "Can I just open it open by throwing out the questions or do I still need to hwryone." Quartz_Guest says, "I meant do I still need to highlight each significant groups contributions." >"I think that the workshop in PRINCIPLE should not be contribution oriented, otherwise it is called a conference, we want to work and not listen to contribs You say, "I think that the workshop in PRINCIPLE should not be contribution oriented, otherwise it is called a conference, we want to work and not listen to contribs" Quartz_Guest [to All]: Good. I want to throw those questions in the open, because we all are interested in the potential answers and future collaborations. >`quartz_guest ... depends on the time you have got, people can also just bring in ideas during discussion Kaspar [to Quartz_Guest]: ... depends on the time you have got, people can also just bring in ideas during discussion Marcus pages, "Nachfrage: 'educational politics' war item '1'= gna education fuer dich?" Quartz_Guest [to all]: Okay, I need to highlight the important points, (need to be more concise?) and then we field questions as time permits>? Marcus [to Kaspar]: no, they cannot. we'll rule with iron fist. (kidding) >page Marcus "Ja genau! also alternative zum alten Scheiss :)" Your message has been sent. Quartz_Guest [to all]: I also am still trying to work in more about exhibits and exploring the WEeb. >`sorry, english question: time permit ? Kaspar [to sorry,]: english question: time permit ? Marcus asks, "huh?" Marcus . o O ( time never permits. ) Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar,]: That is to say if I have enought time in my part of the discusssion. Marcus smiles >`ken ... don't feel you have to *think# about everything :) ... just put the item on the list Kaspar [to ken]: ... don't feel you have to *think# about everything :) ... just put the item on the list Marcus [to Kaspar]: oh, i dont remember - how much time is there for each? Quartz_Guest [to all]: Will I be able to work on this any once I get to Geneva? I start the journey in a few hours. Marcus [to Quartz_Guest]: I can make sure you'll have access at cern - i have account(s) there. >"about time: we have to half days... I think we should plan to discuss all important things on Thursday (marcus's ken's stuff and methodological issues) - "how did we do it" and wrapping up on Friday. Then we will be safe You say, "about time: we have to half days... I think we should plan to discuss all important things on Thursday (marcus's ken's stuff and methodological issues) - "how did we do it" and wrapping up on Friday. Then we will be safe" Marcus says, "Maybe this is what we can discuss on tuesday" >`quartz_guest - call me at home: (023 50 49 10 10) from GENEVA Kaspar [to Quartz_Guest]: - call me at home: (023 50 49 10 10) from GENEVA Marcus says, "how precisely to schedule." Quartz_Guest [to marcus,]: where do I go to get access, you will direct? >`ken and be sure to get my office number and how to get there Kaspar [to ken]: and be sure to get my office number and how to get there Quartz_Guest [to all]: Okay, his is going to be the discussion topic on Tuesday night. Marcus [to Quartz_Guest]: I'll show you. the CERN theory is next ot the conference place. Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar]: Do you mean call now or when I arrive? >"..... hope we finish before 2am on tuesday :( You say, "..... hope we finish before 2am on tuesday :(" Marcus thinks we're not a bad team at all. Esp. with meth.differences :) >`ken when you arrive and when you feel like working Kaspar [to ken]: when you arrive and when you feel like working >`ken ... but not at 2PM ! Kaspar [to ken]: ... but not at 2PM ! Marcus [to Kaspar]: you'll set the example :) Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar,]: I will feel like getting it done as asoon as I can. Quartz_Guest [to all]: But we will need to wait for Marcus. >`ken ... depends on what you want to do .... if you feel like working on your own stuff its different Kaspar [to ken]: ... depends on what you want to do .... if you feel like working on your own stuff its different Marcus [to Ken]: oh, not at all - pace the way for me - feed Kaspar's kids :) Marcus smiles sympathetically. Marcus says, "I have to go now, guys." >" ... they give me hell - just think because they like me they have a right me not working on sundays :) You say, " ... they give me hell - just think because they like me they have a right me not working on sundays :)" Marcus says, "Anything else via Email - Kaspar: i'll be online tomorrow." Marcus [to Ken]: Have a nice trip, Ken! I remember going to South america was HELL... Marcus bows >"ok ... I will start working too! You exclaim, "ok ... I will start working too!" Marcus remotely caresses Kaspar's kids. >`ken have my condolences (spelling?) too Kaspar [to ken]: have my condolences (spelling?) too Marcus waves good-bye. >:wvaes Kaspar wvaes Marcus [to ken]: DONT forget the ALOHA T-Shirt Quartz_Guest says, "to marcus goodby" Marcus [to Kaspar]: thanks for the good guidance, btw. Marcus has disconnected. Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar]: I will call you when I get settle. One more time with the number. >`ken ...oh I should apply that to me ..... any more questions / problems ...btw it is still rainy here Kaspar [to ken]: ...oh I should apply that to me ..... any more questions / problems ...btw it is still rainy here Quartz_Guest says, "okay, I am prepared." >`ken 023 50 49 10 10 at home (Monday) 705 96 94 at my office (Tuesday) Kaspar [to ken]: 023 50 49 10 10 at home (Monday) 705 96 94 at my office (Tuesday) >" ... or maybe i will be in my office too tomorrow You say, " ... or maybe i will be in my office too tomorrow" > Quartz_Guest says, "okay I have verified both numbes." >".. perfect ! You exclaim, ".. perfect !" Quartz_Guest says, "I will try to give my structure one more going over before I leave." >`ken ok .... else print it ... avoid getting bored in the plane Kaspar [to ken]: ok .... else print it ... avoid getting bored in the plane >"anything else ? You ask, "anything else ?" Quartz_Guest [to Kaspar]: I am doing that and bringing books. It will be about 19 hours of flight, plus sititng around airoports. Quartz_Guest [to ksapar,]: no, i guess that is enough. >"holy shit ! ...... ok courage ! see you in geneva ! byebye You say, "holy shit ! ...... ok courage ! see you in geneva ! byebye" Quartz_Guest says, "Thnaks see you there. Goodbye." >@quit *** Disconnected *** >