From hawaii.edu!burk Fri Oct 27 23:04:24 1995 Received: from UNI2B.UNIGE.CH (uni2b.unige.ch [129.194.4.32]) by mime.unige.ch (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA16455 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:05:13 +0100 Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by uni2b.unige.ch (PMDF V5.0-5 #10385) id <01HWYA9NAKCG004C9T@uni2b.unige.ch> for schneide@mime.unige.ch; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:04:54 +0200 (WET-DST) Received: from mailun2a.unige.ch by uni2b.unige.ch (PMDF V5.0-5 #10385) id <01HWYA9ESVC00042L8@uni2b.unige.ch> for Daniel.Schneider@tecfa.unige.ch; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:04:42 +0200 (WET-DST) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 23:04:24 +0100 From: Juli Burk Subject: Minutes of 10-19-95 Meeting (long) Sender: owner-moo-ed@ucet.ufl.edu To: moo-ed Cc: Juli Burk Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk X400-Content-type: P2-1984 (2) X400-MTS-identifier: [/PRMD=switch/ADMD=400net/C=ch/;951027230424] X400-Originator: postmaster@divsun.unige.ch X400-Recipients: Daniel.Schneider@tecfa.unige.ch Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 18126 Status: OR EDU-MOO MEETING HELD AT ATHEMOO THURSDAY 19 OCT, 1995 EDITED TRANSCRIPTION OF MINUTES submitted by Juli Burk Suggested Agenda: 2:00 Coffee, Welcome to ATHEMOO - Juli 2:10 Short self-introductions 2:20 Announcements 2:25 Funding Sources, Funding Needs for Educational MOOs Let's begin with reports from any of us receiving funding for MOO activity (external or internal). Then let's make a list of funding sources (if you know of one, please bring the address with you) Finally, let's break into small groups to come up with a list of funding needs and/or projects Attending were: Juli Burk, Donald Chan (idd), Isabel Danforth (Ringer), Anthony Finkelstein, Cynthia Haynes-Burton, Jan Holmevik, Paolo Petta -- Start: Thursday, October 19, 1995 2:08:10 am ATHEMOO time (HST) -- Juli turns Kaos Recording Machine on. Juli says, "Aloha All and welcome to ATHEMOO" Juli says, "I'd like to call this meeting to order" Juli says, "let's begin introductions :-)" *** INTRODUCTIONS *** PaoloP says, "I am a computer scientist. I participated in a number of 'computer-based/aided-learning' projects in the past years. One main interest in the present context lies in identifying shortcomings/needs/... and devising "solutions" for successful deployment of this technology." CynthiaH [to PaoloP]: What MOO are you associated with? AnthonyF says, "My name is Anthony Finkelstein, I work at City University, London. I am researching in the area of software engineering and ami interested in the applications of MOOS in that setting." PaoloP [to CynthiaH]: "I first got involved with MediaMOO when it opened, not too surprisingly I attend more 'technically oriented places' such as Jayshouse or BioMOO... Jan says, "I am Jan, a happy fellow from Norway :) admin at LinguaMOO and trying to do his RL job oin the side ;)" CynthiaH says, "Cynthia, here...I am the other admin at LinguaMOO and I teach at UT-Dallas" Ringer is Isabel Danforth, Librarian ... administing Librarians' Online Support Team on DU .. with a virtual home on BayMOO Juli says, "I am a theatre professor at the Univ of Hawaii and created ATHEMOO for my professional association, the Association for Theatre in Higher Education" idd id Donald, editor of DU journal of VR Ed. and teacher of a couple of .courses at DU. Juli says, "Are there any announcements?" *** ANNOUNCEMENTS *** #1 CynthiaH says, "LinguaMOO tee-shirts are in :)" #2 Ringer says, "oh.. Jan and I are co-authoring - editing a book on MOO .design .and construction.. " Ringer says, "with a team of 11 authors total" PaoloP [to Ringer]: when will it be published? where? how much? Ringer says, "we need to get a publishesr " Ringer says, "putting together our proposal today.. hopefully" Jan says, "we're working on it now, hope to have it out sometime next fall" Jan says, "the book that is" Juli says, "it will be wonderful to have a book just on MOO" Jan [to CynthiaH]: yes you had a question? CynthiaH says, "I just wanted to add that I am writing the chapter on educational MOOs and for the record (and to those who aren't here, but will read this transcript later), I may be calling on you for information and insights about your particular educational MOO :)...it was really more of a comment :)" Jan says, "the point of this book is to make it a realk collaborative effotrt" Jan says, "and I think that will be one of it's greatest strengths" PaoloP [to Jan]: will there be anything online? Ringer says, "we hope to have that.. depends on the publisher" PaoloP [to Jan]: or is it more of a "commercial effort"? Jan says, "depends on what the publisher wants " Jan says, "we hope to have an associated website" Juli fears that the publisher won't want it there, sales and all Ringer says, "there are a number of publisiheres with web sites for books" Ringer says, "giving table of contents, a chapter.. software and pointers " Ringer says, "First we have to sell it to a publisher" AnthonyF says, "that should be very easy" Ringer smiles .. we hope so Jan grins true Ringer says, "should we give you a list.. " Ringer says, "and the names of people to call?" AnthonyF says, "if you have any problems I have some good contacts" idd says, "get a good agent perhaps, then rest is their job :)." Ringer [to AnthonyF]: thanks CynthiaH wants it noted for the record that Ringer laughes :) CynthiaH smiles over at Ringer :) Juli [to Ringer]: Thanks for your announcement, we all wish you the very best on this and can't wait for it to be in print! #3 idd says, "DU is holding its conference next month, 16-19 I think, but I leave Jeanne to announce that, in Wheeling W.V. this time." Ringer says, "yes nove 16-18" AnthonyF says, "how can I ensure I get the details" Ringer says, "details on the conference?" AnthonyF says, "yes" Ringer says, "do you have characters on DU?" Ringer says, "read *conf there " idd says, " oh ok, will get Jeanne or Cindy Lou to email this list " Juli says, "that's a wonderful idea, I hope we can all get in the habit of using this list to announce things" Juli says, "this = moo-ed" *** TOPIC OF THE DAY : FUNDING *** Juli says, "Can we begin by reporting funding, institutional or otherwise, that our moos receive" CynthiaH says, "Jan and I have discussed writing a grant for a stand-alone machine for our MOO..." CynthiaH says, "and it just occurred to me that maybe more than one MOO could get involved in that grant..." Juli puts her name on the lsit CynthiaH says, "since one machine could certainly handle several MOOS perhaps..." CynthiaH says, "and it would perhaps be more justifiable?" Ringer says, "We have 2 moos on the BayMOO machine" Ringer says, "We have a NISTS grant .. " Juli wonders what NISTS stands for Ringer says, "The R & D moo and dBayMOO are on there " Ringer says, "NIST is national institute for ? science and technology" Ringer says, "the other moo is for distributed manufacturing" AnthonyF says, "just before the meeting started we discussed the geographical spread of people. perhaps we should start with international money sources" Jan [to Ringer]: could you say something about the annanberg grant that DU has+? PaoloP . o ( NIST: Standards & Tech) CynthiaH wonders if corporations could be tapped...like MCI or Sprint...who have become involved in the Internet backbone in the States CynthiaH says, "since Xerox supports Lamda and all" Ringer says, "well Xerox is also involved with Pueblo MOO " Jan [to AnthonyF]: I know that Kaspar et al have aplied to the EU 4th framework programme PaoloP says, "does anybody happen to know if there is a 'moo group' at Xerox EuroPARC?" AnthonyF says, "How about an EU grant for the EU people with money for the US thru the EU-NSF framework?" PaoloP [to Jan]: which is intriguing in a way because switzerland is NOT in the EU ... :-) AnthonyF says, "under what component of the F4 programme" Jan says, "I'm not sure, have to ask him" PaoloP [to AnthonyF]: "there should be quite bit allotted to 'educational telemedia' or something like that - I can check that out... Jan says, "I believe the GNA and BioMOO was involved in it too" AnthonyF says, "Switzerland can be covered (Group B I think)" Jan says, "You have the RACE and ESPRTI...ESPRIT programs" AnthonyF says, "Better bet is funding through applications rather than generic educational telemedia" PaoloP [to Jan]: "that was precisely the kind of info I was hoping to get AnthonyF says, "actually I am not sure I know how to do that" Jan says, "problem with EU grant is that you have to put up %0%...50% of the money yourself" Jan says, "and it involves quite a bit of administration, reports to the commission in Brussels etc " AnthonyF says, "depends on funding rules - I can explain off line" Ringer says, "there are a number of grants out there .. " Ringer says, "But most will support research in new directions, and not ongoing maintenance" AnthonyF says, "we ought to assemble a proper list" idd [to Jan]: well there is no free lunch, you get free money, you probably have to report how you spend it :). Ringer says, "oh.. NIST was actually announced in Moo-cows" Jan [to idd]: true, :) Ringer says, "they want a place to display screens that would be found in the normal factory databse applications." Ringer says, "but allow formen from physically separate places to communicate about them" AnthonyF says, "I will receive 1 Mecu from the EU for a network of Excellence in RE - this type of funding supports research infra-structure" Jan says, "another think ...thing about EU programes is that you really need to have a consortium of group of participants" Ringer says, "I took a 2 day course in grant writing for libraries this summer" Ringer says, "can the consortium include Americans" idd says, "Has anyone approached the phone company, I recall BT was an early supporter of MUDS, with good reason of course! they make money on phone calls :)." Ringer says, "well you need to look at resources such as Grant Encyclopeida" Ringer says, "that tells what kinds of grants, how much they hve given" CynthiaH says, "I think one thing this group can do to support this effort would be to compose a list of rationales for funding a MOO (or several MOOs)...Ringer's idea that they fund things that go in new directions is right...ongoing maintenance needs to be more solidly justified and this group could produce a set of guidelines and post to our website for those of us to use when writing grants" Ringer says, "the BayMOO grant went thru the SFSU grants office" AnthonyF says, "Complicated - Australia, Canada & Israel can participate as full partners. Oz & Israel will receive reciprocol funding. There is a joint NSF-EU funding scheme" Ringer says, "It paid for a Sparc20 and funds for some stipends for folks who worked on it" Juli says, "Shall we turn to cynthia's idea and start a list of rationales?" CynthiaH says, "we could use the moo-ed list to generate a discussion of these guidelines and rationales and then someone can compile them into a web document?" Ringer says, "DU has the funds from the Annenberg grant paying for 2 full time and 2 part time wizards " AnthonyF says, "BT have a call out for proposals - I have the paper under a pile on my desk" CynthiaH says, "I'm not suggesting we start brainstorming this right now, though we could if you all want to" Ringer thinks we need to have an idea of what we want to fund Juli [to CynthiaH]: we could begin and then when i post the log of this meeting it could get folks on that list started Ringer says, "I think that you need to know what you want.. " AnthonyF says, "machines are cheap...people are expensive" CynthiaH [to Ringer]: Yes...things like machines, software, salaries for techonlogical support, etc Ringer says, "and then look thru lists of grantors to find those who might fund it" idd [to AnthonyF]: send me a copy of that if you can, thats one direction that can come back easily. profit motive is always viable. Ringer says, "You can usually get either a machine.. or people, but not both.. And Not ongoing support" Ringer says, "At the DU conference, we will be having a workshop on grants I believe" Ringer says, "the physical conference :)" idd says, " that does not make sense, a machine or people, if only one, it won't work very well . something wrong there :)." Ringer says, "well the grant provides funds for very specific purpose .. " AnthonyF says, "I think funding SOURCES are not quite the issue....assembling a viable and coherent consortium with an application focus (thats where the money is)...is a firts step" Juli says, "a good place to start, though, would be a machine for several moos to live on" CynthiaH says, "usually a grant will fund the startup funds for the technology and people, and often the funding source expects a matching grant for subsequent funding to be obtained or committed by the institution housing the MOO, I would think" Ringer says, "but you need to have a purpose for having those MOOs" CynthiaH says, "yes, I agree a list of rationales and focus for applications is the most important first step that this group could compose" Jan [to Juli]: yeah, like a Cray for all the GNA-net MOOs ;) CynthiaH says, "so I say we generate a discussion on moo-ed soon" Ringer says, "And are we really looking for one machine.. to serve all the moos" CynthiaH says, "not one machine..." CynthiaH says, "but perhaps several MOOs could go in together..." Ringer says, "better to have a physically distributed network" Juli says, "well, if there is a machine, or a network, then that begs the questions of location" Ringer says, "GNA is now a 501(c) so it could participate" idd says, " well the machine is less costly than the internet connection presently. there are running costs for some places." CynthiaH says, "MOOs that are logically related in terms of research and theme" Juli says, "that 501c is very important in most grant apps" Ringer nods. .DU is working on that now Juli says, "by housing the machines at an institution, say a university, the internet connection would not be a problem until it gets privatized" Ringer says, "but if you are with a university you are covered" Ringer says, "The BayMOO grant went thru SFSU for example" Ringer says, "Although the machine is in Yea's office" Ringer says, "he is the project director " Juli says, "perhaps we might look at the application for some pointers?" idd [to Juli]: well, its not been a problem but what if it goes multimedia, and eats bandwidth, then Univ. may get back to more serious purposes like email :). Jan says, "I suggest that say DU writes something to moo-ed about how you got the grant you have now, and the rest of us can start to post on other possible sources of funds, like the EU for example" Ringer says, "I am not the one to do that.. you need to talk to Jeanne " Ringer says, "and visit the grant center on DU .. " idd says, " oh I have a copy of Leslie article, I should post that soon." Jan says, "that weould be a good start, yes" Ringer [to idd]: do you have his permission to do that ? idd says, "Leslie directs the Annenberg grant I believe. " Ringer says, "yes he does " idd says, " its for DU journal, I just have to get it out. yes, I believe so." AnthonyF says, "perhaps all us Europeans ought to get together and give serious thought to an F4 consortium" Ringer says, "okay.. if for DU journal yes ." Juli [to Ringer]: could you elaborate on the annenberg grant just a bit? CynthiaH says, "we should also encourage a spirit of collaboration on this...it could be seen as competitive to go after limited funding sources...but if this group bands together and shares information about how they got grants, ie their rationales, their funding sources, etc, we could all benefit" Ringer says, "the annenberg grant is for teaching writing " Jan says, "Kaspar already has some experience there that will help get us started" Ringer says, "What leslie did that helped get the fundinig .. " Ringer says, "was to have done pre and post testing of classes he taught .. on and off the moo" Ringer says, "and show that the classes that had used the moo, had gained more " Ringer says, "and then this grant it to enhance the use of moo for teaching writing Ringer says, "So it has allowed lots of user friendly enhancemnts to DU " Juli [to Ringer]: does it pay for the personnel? Ringer says, "yes.. " Juli [to Ringer]: what is the duration? Ringer says, "Riche, Ulf, Jeanne and Dave" Ringer says, "1 year or 18 months" Juli [to Ringer]: renewable? Ringer says, "no" Ringer says, "there was another proposal that did not make it" Ringer says, "FIPSE that was to provide a full college freshman curriculum for students from 4 or 5 different colleges" Ringer says, "that made it to the last cut, and then lost " CynthiaH says, "As a director of a writing program I can heartily agree with the MOO as a way of teaching writing...another rationale, and one that LinguaMOO fosters, is using the MOO as a space for research ABOUT this space, and as a space in which researchers can create their own work" AnthonyF says, "last word before I go to give a lecture...in this part of the world TRAINING gets more funding than EDUCATION!" Ringer says, "I have been thinking about L.O.S.T does training workshops. continuing education" Ringer says, "One thing to remember in the moo.. " Ringer says, "you need to have people to maintian the technical side.. do admin work, and then the 'teachers'" Ringer says, "and the grant has to support all of those roles" Juli wonders if we need to set the next location? Ringer says, "what about DU " Ringer says, "I have the librarians center there " CynthiaH says, "sounds good to me...will you be setting the date and time and announcing it on moo-ed?" Ringer says, "but after thanksgiving" idd says, "when is thanksgiving?" Ringer says, "I will make arrangement" Ringer says, "nov 23 " Ringer says, "can it be nov 30" Ringer says, "noon EDT again" Ringer says, "okay.. nov 30 noon.. I will announce it.. " -- End: Thursday, October 19, 1995 3:06:18 am ATHEMOO time (HST) These minutes were edited in the spirit of saving space. The full transcript of the meeting is available at athemoo in the Kaos Seminar Room, the object name is 10-19-95. Thanks to all in attendance, to those who weren't with us, we missed you! :-)) =============================================================================== Juli Burk University of Hawaii - Dept. of Theatre and Dance phone: (808) 956-2600 fax: (808) 956-4234 internet: burk@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ===============================================================================